Editor’s note: PMQ Pizza’s recent interview with Paul and Mary Ann Giannone about their storied career and new book, Pizza From the Heart, is being presented in a three-part digital exclusive. Framed as an oral history of Paulie Gee’s, this is part 2. Click here to read part 1 and click here to read part 3.
By Tracy Morin
Mary Ann and Paul Giannone didn’t really want to write a cookbook. But when the iconic restaurateurs approached publishers about sharing their inspirational story, they quickly learned that cookbooks sell better than, say, memoirs—and publishers, of course, want to turn a profit like everyone else. So the founders of Paulie Gee’s did what they had to do. But they’ll be the first to tell you: Pizza From the Heart, now available in bookstores and online everywhere, is a lot more than a cookbook (featuring 100-plus recipes, mind you), and that’s made abundantly clear in its dedication:
“We dedicate this book to all the dreamers willing to take the risks required to pursue their passions. We hope our story inspires you to toss conventional wisdom to the curb, whether you’re young enough not to realize what you’re getting yourself into or old enough to know better.”
In part 2 of PMQ Pizza’s conversation with the Giannones, we travel back in time to learn more about the founding of Paulie Gee’s, the legendary pizzaiolos who encouraged them to pursue their dream and how the couple has helped various pizza restaurateurs get their start. Bonus: They also discuss their pivotal role in the origin story of Mike’s Hot Honey!
Related: PMQ’s Brands to Watch: Keep an Eye on These 15 Trailblazers and Innovators
PART 2: Incubators and Innovators
PMQ: Tell us about how you were able to incubate brands at Paulie Gee’s that became household names.
Paulie: When I first opened up the pizzeria, I wanted to bond with the community. We were opening in a neighborhood full of 20-somethings, and we were not 20-something. So we went around. I started making friends with people in different businesses in the area.
I found out about this market called the Greenpoint Food Market or something. It was a floating market—they had it in different church basements and places each month. We decided to go there to see if we could meet people, let them know we’re opening up a pizzeria. It was a way to publicize ourselves, as well as bonding with the community.
I found one guy there who was making a bacon marmalade concoction that I liked very much. I said, “When we open, maybe we could put this on a pizza.” And he eventually came to the pizzeria, and we decided that it would be good on a certain pie. We came up with the ingredients for the pie together.
But in the meantime, between him coming to the pizzeria, The New York Times did a beautiful write-up on the market in the Sunday food section. You know who reads The New York Times food section? The health department. And what people were doing in that market was not legal. Basically, you can’t make food in your home and serve it in a public business like that. So they shut them down—I think the one that we went to was the very last market that they had. They tried to get it reopened, and they couldn’t. So when the bacon marmalade guy came to me, I said, “Listen, this is great. You’re going to have to make the bacon marmalade in my kitchen.” And he started doing that.
Now, shortly after that, along came a guy named Mike Kurtz (founder of Mike’s Hot Honey). When we first opened, I was looking to economize any way I could, and I was also looking to help other people in the pizza community. So I would bring apprentices in to learn. For, essentially, their labor, they got to learn how to operate a pizzeria. And Mike got wind of this. He came in, and I walked over to his table one night. We started chatting. He knew me from Slice, the pizza blog from Serious Eats. He knew I was doing this, and he told me that he wanted to come in and be a pizza apprentice. I said, “Great, come in Wednesday. My son will be here. He’ll teach you how to get started stretching dough.”
As I walked away, he told me, “I’m going to bring my condiment with me.” And I said, “Condiment? What condiment?” He said, “You’ll see.” He brought it in, and I liked the idea of getting that. He also was from the community. We used to be closed on Mondays, and I told him he’d have to come in on Monday to make the honey in our kitchen if he wanted to have it served there. And that’s how Mike’s Hot Honey got started in the commercial world. He had the Food and Drug Administration, I guess, come in and certify our kitchen for commercial production. And he just grew from there—that’s how that started.
It all started because Chris Bianco (of Pizzeria Bianco) encouraged me to help other people, and I like that idea of helping other people get started in a business. We had a choice between investing in Mike’s Hot Honey or opening up our slice shop. And I’m glad that I opened up a slice shop—not that we wouldn’t be doing well if we were Mike’s Hot Honey investors!
All along, we’ve kind of been incubators for people. We bring people in sometimes that want to open up their own place, and they learn from us. Sometimes they go out on their own and do it; sometimes they open with us [as a Paulie Gee’s branded location].
PMQ: You also opened at the height of what might now be called the neo-Neapolitan resurgence.
Paulie: We caught that wave. But more important than being innovative with the pizza, we helped other people start businesses. And if you look around, there are a number of people who have their own pizzerias now. The latest one is Miriam Weiskind, from The Za Report—she’s [getting ready to open] a place (Yum’s of PDX) in Portland (in May 2025).
And Sean Aiken, he started with a pop-up and a brewery in the Rockaways, and now he’s opening up a brick-and-mortar (Crown Square Pizza) on the boardwalk. David Sheridan from Wheated started with me as an apprentice. There are people who opened that came and worked in our place, like Naughty Pie Nature in Los Angeles. There’s a guy, Anthony, who makes pizza on Fridays—I don’t know if he still does it, but he makes pizza here on the street on Fridays in Greenpoint.
PMQ: That’s really what the pizza industry is about: helping other people. That’s always been a big facet of the business—even if it’s the competitor down the street, if he runs out of flour, you lend him some.
Paulie: We used to get a lot of flour from Motorino! I promote other people’s pizzerias all the time, just because I love pizza and I want to help people. I’ll say, “If you live here, here’s a good place to go.” But also it shows that you’re doing this for the love of pizza, not just for the money. And that’s why I have gone out of my way never to call it a business anymore. I call it a community.
PMQ: How else did you build community at the pizzeria?
Mary Ann: We always, from the very beginning, catered to vegans, because right before we were going to open here, a friend of ours had moved back to Brooklyn, and he was saying that the vegan movement was really going forward here. So we, pretty early on, just started to also cater to vegans. This way, as soon as we opened, people could come in with their friends and be able to have some good vegan pizza, which really wasn’t around at the time.
I feel like that was something else that we were a little bit in the forefront of, when I look at it. I really haven’t tried any vegan pizza other than ours, but I’ve heard stories from people, even in New York, about how it’s not that great. And, you know, it was always Paulie’s thinking that he wasn’t just going to throw something on a pie and say it was vegan. He put a lot of thought into what the sources were going to be and coming up with creative toppings and also trying to source the best vegan ingredients at the time, which were not many. There really weren’t.
It’s a lot better now—that has certainly evolved a lot. At the time we started, there really wasn’t any good cheese, per se, and so we, luckily at the time, started with Numu mozzarella. We were one of their first people. There are so many stories like this—I always say, I look back at it now, and we were in the right place at the right time. A lot was going on here. There was a lot of synergy in this neighborhood. It was not built up like it is now.
Paulie: It wasn’t an accident that we opened here, either. I saw what was going to happen. It was easy to see.
Mary Ann: We made a lot of friendships and relationships very early on—even Van Leeuwen [ice cream], they were just starting out. Usually they don’t do wholesale; they do retail. We were, like, the first place in New York, and I don’t even think they still do wholesale.
Paulie: No, they got out. We were too much of a pain, you know. We were the first place to have their ice cream. I mean, they had a small cart in Central Park. Then they had trucks. Basically, they did not have a location open yet. They have 72 locations now. They opened after us. The guys who designed our restaurant designed their first location. That was another thing that we did: We found these guys that were building cool places in North Brooklyn.
In the forthcoming third installment of this exclusive oral history, Mary Ann and Paulie Giannone share their true goals for Pizza From the Heart and the challenges involved in writing a book that’s part cookbook, part memoir and all, well, heart.
Join the Pizza From the Heart Q&A and book signing at the original Paulie Gee’s in Brooklyn on May 3. Watch for their upcoming events in Chicago on May 20 and in mid-September in San Diego, at Tribute Pizza. Learn more on Paulie Gee’s Instagram page.
